my first job in the industry was as Art Director. And, so I - I had to really go through a trial by fire, where I did the things that I thought an Art Director did, and made a lot of mistakes. And - and, even now, I'm not even sure if I'm a good Art Director. But, um, you know, I - I guess I saw the Art Director as someone who has to champion the art style. They - they figure out what the art style is, and they coordinate the artists to get there. And, they work with the designers, and the writers, and programmers, you know, interfacing with that. Um, what I realized later, is that it's a lot more people-centric. You know, an Art Director, their - their role is to take care of the artists. And - and, be the conduit between the art team and - and, the rest of the team. Um, my experience working on Grimm and Alice, uh, it - it was interesting. Because, American McGee, who is the game designer in both cases, um, you know, he had a lot of faith in me. I see him as my mentor. And - and, he saw a lot of value in the visual parts of games. And, so he was really encouraging of investing a lot in concept art. And - and, you know, kind of building up a vision of the game through - through visuals. Um, so we worked closely together, to - to sort of visually define the game, you know. Let's - let's show you things that people have never seen before. And - and, create game play ideas out of - out of those visuals. And, then - and, kind of along the way, or after the fact, work at what the interactions are. And, I guess that - that kind of set me on the road to exploring the role of art in video games. You know, like, you know, how can we - how can we design games that have never been made before? By having different priorities, or coming at it from a different approach.