Well, also education and games, it’s-it’s really pretty intriguing, if you look at it, that on the surface, a lot of people feel that there is a-a direct conflict, and in fact, probably the single most um, difficult group of clients I have ever dealt with in terms of making games to help them with their work has been elementary school teachers, and a lot of them, I realize, see games as the enemy. That’s what the kids do when they’re not studying, that’s what they’re hiding behind their books and not-not learning. But the irony is, one of my all-time favorite quotes was from Marshall McLuhan, who said, anyone who makes a distinction between entertainment and education doesn’t know the first thing about either. And, when I first read that, I thought, wow, that’s a bit over the top. I mean, of course entertainment and education overlap, but, you know, to say there’s no distinction, that seemed crazy to me. But the more I looked into it, the more I realized that, certainly with every game that I’ve ever played, I only enjoy it as long as I’m learning something new. When I reach that point in the game where I feel that I’ve mastered everything there is, that there’s no additional new horizons or tricks, or depth to-to be had, that’s when I give up. And conversely, the games that I come back to and play over and over again, and find, you know deep and entertaining, you know, even classic games like chess, for example, fit into this. You can always find some new depth, you know, if-if you push yourself, and always go a little bit farther, and games at their heart really are learning machines that uh, really ultimately, I think that every good game is all about learning. It’s just that the conflict comes in because, in most entertainment titles, what you’re learning has little or no collect-connection to the real world, and certainly doesn’t necessarily have to help the real world in any way. It’s there to entertain and possibly divert the player. Whereas if you’re trying to educate somebody and teach a specific curriculum, doesn’t always fit well with games.I often tell people, I don’t really believe serious games are a panacea at all, there are a lot of different types of education and training that really are not improved by gameplay, you know, just as you wouldn’t use books to teach everything in the world, and a hands-on training is great for some things, but not for everything, and having somebody to lecture you and to watch you do something is good in some cases. Games are just one modality for learning and training, and they’re actually quite a broad one that can be adapted to many different learning styles and situations, but they’re certainly not universal, and I think they’re best as a supplement to lectures and books and, you know, more traditional methods as well.
