Levels are weird and I think levels are some sort of, uh, cognitive hack, LantzFranky. Uh, I think it's, uh, it's one of these things, um, that somehow people are programmed -- it taps into a deep programming to, you know, status and pecking order or something. Uh, it's -- it's pretty odd. Um, it's actually not a pattern -- design pattern I'm very fond of. Um, and, uh, really the main reason is that I think it can work extremely well for a period of time and for me, anyway, I reached a point after maybe four or five years of pretty serious playing of MUDs and I guess very early MMOs, um, where I just couldn't do it anymore. The -- the grind and the, you know, got to build up your character and just that sort of, uh, that loop just ceased to be effective anymore. It felt like a -- it was a very sort of, it didn't happen slowly, almost. It just felt like a piece of my dopamine system just said, look, you know, this isn't going to work anymore. You've got to find something more interesting. Um, and, uh, because of that, um, we didn't put levels into Puzzle Pirates. Um, in fact, uh, few of our games, um, most of our games avoid single experience-based, uh progression level. Um, and, uh, in Puzzle Pirates we had a totally different take on it which is, uh, I think, has helped the game be very successful but has also made it challenging which is that the player's actual skill in playing the puzzles, the actual personal skill, gives them a rating, like a competitive chess rating against all the other players in the game. Um, and that's very compelling because it means you're actual skill is being exercised and you have a good, you can actually compare yourself in a real way against other players and you can know, like, oh, that guy is grandmaster, well he's going to beat me if I'm respected. Or, there's a good chance of it. Um, and I think that's been, uh, very successful, but it's also hard because if you do badly, uh, the other day I was practicing my distilling and I botched it, and my rating went down. And I was sad. I was like, you know, this is harsh. I mean, but then I played more to get it back up again. Um, so, you know, some of these things still work but the -- the single experience-based level, um, I -- I think is, uh, I think to me I just associate it with killing, you know, weevils and were-rabbits, and giant were-rabbits and just that kind of very kind of grindy progression loop, um, which, you know, is understandably still very compelling. But, again, if you look at the very long term for, uh, MMORPGs, you know, World of WarCraft, most of these games, they have a leveling curve that really is just kind of a precursor to the end game. It's like your buy-in. So, yeah, it's fun and compelling but the actual game after the first year of play, which I know sounds vaguely absurd, um, but for awhile now people have been playing the game six, seven years, no problem, they're really, you know, the game -- any game is about items still and your group and your experience working together as a group.