I think gamification is interesting because the more things change, the more they stay the same. Um, if you look at the history of toys, you know, you'll see that like kids used to collect, uh, uh, milk bottle caps, right? And at some point they collected baseball cards. Uh, you know, and, and they went for the rares, and they, they showed off the ones that they had that were unusual. And, similarly, like people in companies in the '50s got plaques and certificates for being there for five years, ten years, you know, for achieving this, the, the whatever of the year. Um, and so I think that those, those things are like, if you look in the heart of that, of, of gamification, you find those things. Like gamification makes me laugh because it's like, on one hand, it can be really exploitative and, and icky and, uh, take away the most beautiful, sublime part of the game experience for me as a player. Uh, and at the same time, I have to -- I, I love good, good achievements, achievements that draw me over to the edge of the simulation where I wouldn't have gone otherwise or let me know that something just happened that's clever or interesting. Um, and I found myself -- uh, I was trying to drop ten pounds, and I was using this, uh, app on my phone to log my -- I, I ride like to work on my bicycle. And I -- you know, I was logging like 65 miles a week, which is not much for bicyclists. But, for me, it was a big change. And, you know, I, I caught myself liking the badges that I was getting from the app, you know? And I was like, hey, I have worked out 3+ times a week for eight weeks running. That's good -- that's good progress. So, I do think there's a place. I just don't think it's in games, oddly. I think it's, uh -- I think it's probably a good self-motivator if I want it for working out or for reminding myself of how many times I've done this or that. But, to me, gameplay is something pure. Even playing poker, you know, like the moment you go all in and you know that you're about to take down the, the person that you've goaded on the other side of the table. Gameplay is kind of pure, you know? It's, it's one of the things that fundamentally defines us as people, this playful nature. Um, it's engaging in some sort of conflict without real-world consequences sometimes. It's -- you know, it's skipping a stone over a pond. How many times can you make it skip? How many times can I do that? And I don't -- I think gamification is something separate. I think that's useful for losing weight or, or, uh, you know, eating enough vegetables in the course of the week or whatever. And I would -- personally, I'd rather leave the gameplay pure.
